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Post  ak1971 on Wed May 07, 2008 10:51 pm

http://www.pokerhand.org/?2578867

forget that Im playing 2-4o out of position here..did I get maximum value out of this hand?
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Post  PoWdA on Thu May 08, 2008 7:27 am

I can't see these pokerhand.org hands from work. I will try to comment later.
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Post  idh78 on Thu May 08, 2008 9:37 am

ak1971 wrote:http://www.pokerhand.org/?2578867

forget that Im playing 2-4o out of position here..did I get maximum value out of this hand?

actually it said you were on the button? I don't know what the other guy was doing in this hand....did he limp with J 2 and still manage to lose that much on the hand??? I would have raised to say $10 on the turn, and if he calls there he has pretty much commited himself to calling an all in from you on the river.
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Post  ak1971 on Thu May 08, 2008 9:41 am

I dont know..I was just laughing so hard when that flop came out, I'm suprised I didnt accidentally fold
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Post  idh78 on Thu May 08, 2008 9:45 am

raise your hand if you've never folded the nuts online(or timed out)

*quietly puts hand down*-------------------------------------------------------------------->
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Post  dexman1349 on Thu May 08, 2008 10:00 am

idh78 wrote:
ak1971 wrote:http://www.pokerhand.org/?2578867

forget that Im playing 2-4o out of position here..did I get maximum value out of this hand?

actually it said you were on the button? I don't know what the other guy was doing in this hand....did he limp with J 2 and still manage to lose that much on the hand??? I would have raised to say $10 on the turn, and if he calls there he has pretty much commited himself to calling an all in from you on the river.

The other guy was the BB. Since ak just limped, he got to see a cheap flop. Unfortunately for the BB, he didn't get as much of that flop as ak did.

There are two things that could have been done differently:

1) I agree with Ian on the larger raise on the turn. Raising it by ~3x to $12 would have helped. I think raising any more than that you might not get a call on the river. I think he already knew he was beat after the raise on the turn, and pairing his other card didn't really improve his hand (unless he puts you on middle pair, 6's to 10's), especially since his two pair was counterfitted with the 4's and ultimately gave him a crap kicker. I think any card other than an A or K on the river induces a bet from him instead of a check.

2) You could have also only smooth called the turn. I've used this to set-up a semi-trap to some success. By only smooth calling on the turn, you may be able to extract more than the 3.75 raise you got out of the small raise. In this case, the A on the river actually hurt your chances of getting more at the end. I think if he didn't put you on a middle-pair, he might have put you on A-x and just got lucky.

Either case you may have been able to extract more than you did, but I don't think it would have been very much.

I think this is one of those hands that Paul was talking about at Danny's home game last month. It's one of those hands that lets you hit just hard enough so that you won't fold, but not well enough to win (I'm referring to the other player, btw).
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Post  idh78 on Thu May 08, 2008 10:41 am

dexman1349 wrote:

The other guy was the BB.

2) You could have also only smooth called the turn. I've used this to set-up a semi-trap to some success. By only smooth calling on the turn, you may be able to extract more than the 3.75 raise you got out of the small raise. In this case, the A on the river actually hurt your chances of getting more at the end. I think if he didn't put you on a middle-pair, he might have put you on A-x and just got lucky.


Actually it looks like he was under the gun...he was in seat 4 and the button was in seat 1. limping with a hand like J 2 is a pretty weak play IMO...if you are going to play that trash at least raise with it.

I don't like smooth calling on the turn here for one simple reason....when you have a big hand you want to build a pot to extract maximum value for your hand....even with a raise to $10 there is going to be about $23 in the pot and Andy will only have about $7 left....even when the ace hits I don't see how the other guy will fold there even with 2nd pair no kicker getting over 4 to 1 on a call..
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