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Post  Mondogarage on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:33 pm

Okay, so I'm headed to Vegas for a few days, and I originally was going to allow myself to play two tourneys, a $180 at Venetian, and a $150 at Caesar's. Both are reasonable tournament values, though neither is deep-stacked.

I then saw that Friday's Casear Megastack is a $310+30 (for 12.5k chips and 50 minute rounds), and my first instinct is to jump all over it. True deep stack poker, imho. But the buy-in probably precludes me from playing a 2nd tourney (assuming I don't cash).

On the one hand, I really want to play two tournaments. On the other, I am running horribly lately (check my blog for details). I know I only played "okay to half decent" on Sunday, but I played outstanding poker last night, had great reads, never had to suckout, and yet only cashed in 1 of 12 tourneys, and took some horrendous beats in the process, I have no reason to believe I'll run any better this weekend, and my wife and I need to average 4/hr a day cash play at the MGM to keep our poker rate.

So my question to you guys is, what do you do? Do you suck it up and only play one tourney and make it the Mega stack? Or do you skip the Mega and play two? Or do you maybe play the Mega stack and them some bullshit $60 tourney elsewhere?

I'm looking for suggestions. Hanging at the Rio and trying to win satellites is not an option I choose to go after this time.
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Post  dexman1349 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:49 pm

Mondogarage wrote:So my question to you guys is, what do you do? ...play the Mega stack and them some bullshit $60 tourney elsewhere?

My suggestion is in the quotes. The $60 tourneys at the MGM are actually quite playable. IIRC the $60 is actually a $40 + $20 add-on with rebuys that is a tourney similar to the one we played at the Gates on Sunday: ~60 players, 12k in chips, 30 minute blinds. I don't remember the blind structure, but I do remember it was a fairly soft game.

Edit: according to the MGM website, the morning tourney is a $65 tourney for 2k chips & 6 table max with no re-buys. That tourney I played was on a weekend, so I'm not sure if they have a different weekend schedule or not.
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Post  Mondogarage on Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:13 pm

I don't know what MGM's current tourney is, but the tourney you described ($40 +20) is exactly what Sahara run 3x a day, which I actually took down the last time I was in Vegas, so if I end up going that route, I'll just compare the two, I guess.

I do know that only cash play at MGM works towards my poker room rate, and any MGM tourney time wouldn't count.

Thanks for the suggestion!
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Post  PoWdA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:15 pm

What do the blinds start out at in the "deep stack".
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Post  Scrupboy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:16 pm

I would play the Mega stack at Caesar's. This is a great structure and almost all of Caesar's tournaments are valuable. The 50 minute blinds make a huge difference! They do kick in antes after the 3rd round, but the blind levels are so long that you are definitely deep stacked.

In my experience, (last year) all the tournaments with buyin's of less then $300 were not worthwhile (except for Sahara). The tournament I played at MGM turned into a crap shoot after the first hour. I hear that Planet Hollywood has changed their tournaments to allow a little more value. Check out this link to research daily tournament structures, buyin's and house percentages:

http://www.allvegaspoker.com/tournaments.php

They are very good about keeping this information accurate.
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Post  idh78 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:17 pm

PoWdA wrote:What do the blinds start out at in the "deep stack".

pretty sure they start out fine but I remember the level jumps being HUGE at Ceasars...for the daily tourneys anyway..


my advice....play cash games....I find most of the tournies out there are poor structures...they generally get better the more you spend on a buy-in though....but for me personally I hate having to plan anything in Vegas....and the cash games are so juicy...


Last edited by idh78 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Scrupboy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:21 pm

idh78 wrote:
PoWdA wrote:What do the blinds start out at in the "deep stack".

pretty sure they start out fine but I remember the level jumps being HUGE at Ceasars...
Here is the structure of their normal Friday $330 tournament. I recall reading somewhere that they were going to stick to this same structure, but I am not certain.

BLINDS ANTES
25/50
50/100
100/200/25
200/400/50
300/600/75
400/800/100
600/1200/100
800/1600/200
1000/2000/200
1500/3000/300
2000/4000/400
3000/6000/500
8000/16000/1000
10000/20000/2000
15000/30000/3000
20000/40000/4000
30000/60000/5000
50000/100000/5000
75000/150000/5000
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Post  idh78 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:24 pm

Scrupboy wrote:
idh78 wrote:
PoWdA wrote:What do the blinds start out at in the "deep stack".

pretty sure they start out fine but I remember the level jumps being HUGE at Ceasars...
Here is the structure of their normal Friday $330 tournament. I recall reading somewhere that they were going to stick to this same structure, but I am not certain.

BLINDS ANTES
25/50
50/100
100/200/25
200/400/50
300/600/75
400/800/100
600/1200/100
800/1600/200
1000/2000/200
1500/3000/300
2000/4000/400
3000/6000/500
8000/16000/1000
10000/20000/2000
15000/30000/3000
20000/40000/4000
30000/60000/5000
50000/100000/5000
75000/150000/5000

at 50 minute rounds those don't seem too bad I guess, but I still prefer more levels than that...
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Post  idh78 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:27 pm

I remember the Orleans having pretty good structured tournies....although they two become shovefests at the 5 or 6 hour mark.....we did get through a 250 person $105 buy-in tourney in about 8 hours afterall..
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Post  Mondogarage on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:28 pm

Scrupboy wrote:
idh78 wrote:
PoWdA wrote:What do the blinds start out at in the "deep stack".

pretty sure they start out fine but I remember the level jumps being HUGE at Ceasars...
Here is the structure of their normal Friday $330 tournament. I recall reading somewhere that they were going to stick to this same structure, but I am not certain.

BLINDS ANTES
25/50
50/100
100/200/25
200/400/50
300/600/75
400/800/100
600/1200/100
800/1600/200
1000/2000/200
1500/3000/300
2000/4000/400
3000/6000/500
8000/16000/1000
10000/20000/2000
15000/30000/3000
20000/40000/4000
30000/60000/5000
50000/100000/5000
75000/150000/5000

I don't have the actual structure, but this is a special series designed to compete with the Venetian Deep-Stack series (and draw WSOP players on the side), so that seems to sound at least reasonably close. It is definitely not their normal tourneys, as they've suspended their regular daily noon tourneys during this (they're other ones 7pm, 11pm, etc. are going on.)

Also, if it helps, Venetian has moved their regular daily noon tourney to 8pm, using the noon stacks and buyins, while their Deep Stack Extravaganza runs at noon (but their buy-ins while I'm in Vegas are at the $500 level, which is beyond me right now...I needed to cash on Sunday to be able to do that one.)

More advice always appreciated, though for the moment, I guess I'm probably leaning towards doing the Friday Mega-stack and one Sahara $60 daily, probably on Sunday.
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Post  kkravec on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:31 pm

Usually before I head to Vegas, I look at: http://www.pokertournamentformula.com/las_vegas_poker_tournaments.htm

The patience factor is tha amount of time it'll take to blind out and the higher skill level 4,5, and 6, allow for more play and try to take away the luck factor towards the end of the tournament based on chips and minutes per round.

To answer your question about what to play, it really comes back to how confident you are in your play, especially since you need to play 4 hours/day of cash at MGM and the fact that you want to play

I'm not sure if Ceasar's is still running their daily tournaments but there is some decent value and usually 40 mintue blinds along with Venetian as you stated earlier. Is the Venetian running daily tourneys while you are out there, they have their deep stack extravaganza going on now along with the WSOP and Ceasar's Mega Stack tournies. Lots of choices but still a bit higher in price than it seems you are looking to spend. Good luck in your choice and hope you run well while you are out there.
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Post  Scrupboy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:31 pm

idh78 wrote:at 50 minute rounds those don't seem too bad I guess, but I still prefer more levels than that...
The 40 minute round version of this tournament is already estimated to be over 12 hours long with an average of 100 players. Anything longer would turn into a multi-day tournament. Oh I see, Ian would definitely get his $300 in booze if he sat out the entire tournament and we added a few extra levels like 150/300 and a 500/1000. Laughing
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Post  kkravec on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:33 pm

BLINDS ANTES
25/50
50/100
100/200/25
200/400/50
300/600/75
400/800/100
600/1200/100
800/1600/200
1000/2000/200
1500/3000/300
2000/4000/400
3000/6000/500
8000/16000/1000
10000/20000/2000
15000/30000/3000
20000/40000/4000
30000/60000/5000
50000/100000/5000
75000/150000/5000

I played with these blinds on a Thursday afternoon and blinds got to 1500/3000/300 when there were 3 left, it started with 50-55 players so blinds will get high, but after 7.5 or so hours, we were done.
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Post  ak1971 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:07 pm

I think Binions is running a mini WSOP right now with cheap buy ins You ought to check that one out
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Post  Scrupboy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:23 pm

Well Mondo's probably already gone and made his decision about which tourney to play. I did find some information about the Mega Stack tournament at Caesars. Their blind structure is a little more lax then I originally thought as the antes don't kick in until the 7th level. I've also read that they have been seeing numbers of 400 - 550 entries per tournament and that they have been going two days. Starting at noon and ending play at 2 AM, then returning the next day at 2 PM and finishing up between 6 and 9 PM. Wow, that a long tournament and a great value for a $230 buyin and 12.5 k in chips. I'm going to play this on the 18th.

Level Ante Small Blind Big Blind
1 25 50
2 50 100
3 100 200
4 200 400
5 300 600
6 400 800
7 100 600 1,200
8 200 800 1,600
9 300 1,000 2,000
10 400 1,500 3,000
11 500 2,000 4,000
12 500 3,000 6,000
13 1,000 4,000 8,000
14 1,000 6,000 12,000
15 2,000 8,000 16,000
16 3,000 10,000 20,000
17 4,000 15,000 30,000
18 5,000 20,000 40,000
19 5,000 30,000 60,000
20 10,000 40,000 80,000
21 10,000 60,000 120,000
22 20,000 80,000 160,000
23 30,000 100,000 200,000
Registration begins at 10:00 am Daily and up to the end of first Level. All levels will last 50 minutes.
Management reserves the right to cancel, change or modify the Tournament in part, or in whole without notice.
Each Tournament will play down to the Final Table or Until 2:00 am. Second Day start at 2:00 pm.
Dinner breaks will be added at the discretion of the tournament director.
Three percent of the Prize Pool will be withheld for the staff.
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Post  Mondogarage on Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:07 am

Well, I played it, and just busted 39th of 582 runners, 15 minutes from the end of a 14 hour day 1. Went out in level 13, with an M of 4. I played the $340 version. I'm exhausted...will write more when I'm back in town...
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Post  kkravec on Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:33 am

Nice run Mondo! #39th is still a cash, well played!!!
Any littl quirks that might be helpful to know about the tourney?

Jenna and I have booked a random trip out there next week and are looking to play Thursday, Friday, and maybe Saturday.
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Post  Scrupboy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:22 am

kkravec wrote:Jenna and I have booked a random trip out there next week and are looking to play Thursday, Friday, and maybe Saturday.
What days will you be out there? I'll be there 17th - 21st and am planning to play the 18th.
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Post  kkravec on Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:53 am

Scrupboy wrote:What days will you be out there? I'll be there 17th - 21st and am planning to play the 18th.

We're leaving this Wednesday the 11th and coming back the 15th. We'll miss you but will be chearing you on from here.
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Post  Scrupboy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:07 pm

kkravec wrote:We're leaving this Wednesday the 11th and coming back the 15th. We'll miss you but will be chearing you on from here.
As will we. Good luck to both you and Jenna!
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Post  Mondogarage on Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:37 am

Good luck to all of you going, and by all means, try the Caesar's megastack. Seriously, it was GREAT value, though the payouts are truly heavy.

In my event, 54 of 582 got paid, and even with under 10% getting paid, you had to make final 27 spots just to make at least 2x the buy-in.
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Post  kkravec on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:37 pm

Scrupboy wrote:.

Level Ante Small Blind Big Blind
1 25 50
2 50 100
3 100 200
4 200 400
5 300 600
6 400 800
7 100 600 1,200
8 200 800 1,600
9 300 1,000 2,000
10 400 1,500 3,000
11 500 2,000 4,000
12 500 3,000 6,000
13 1,000 4,000 8,000
14 1,000 6,000 12,000
15 2,000 8,000 16,000
16 3,000 10,000 20,000
17 4,000 15,000 30,000
18 5,000 20,000 40,000
19 5,000 30,000 60,000
20 10,000 40,000 80,000
21 10,000 60,000 120,000
22 20,000 80,000 160,000
23 30,000 100,000 200,000

GL out in Vegas Son and Jenna and I returned Sunday night after playing out there all weekend. The Mega Stack at Ceasar's both Thursday ($235) and Friday ($340)

After I got cold decked a couple times and then couldn't get anything else started, I quickly exited in level 3 and then proceeded to the cash tables and won most of the buy in back. Jenna lasted much longer adn exited after her QQ was out-turned by 88. When she exited it was level 7 or 8 and blinds were started to get high. Thursday was crazy....the 2nd largest tourney ever held at Ceasar's with over 620 people and we both lasted much longer. Jenna busted right before the dinner break at 7:30 and I lasted until about 10:30 and there were still 120 people. Needless to say neither of us cashed in either but the "deep" play quickly ends. When I ended average stack was 66k and we were in level 10 at 400 ante blinds 1500/3000 costing 9500 each round and giving the average stack an M of just unver 7...not a very deep stack tourney anymore. I'll say that you need to acquire A LOT of chips before antes kick in at the 600/1200 blind rounds where the cost to play jumps from 1200/round to 2800/round.

Oh yea....and Thursday 63 places were paid and the 55-63 got 365 bucks....are you kidding me, pay 340 to enter and play for 12 hours to make 15 dollars....wow is all I can say. I will say that if you made it to 1st it was worth 50k and that's worth it but I thought at least double money as soon as the cash hit, but knew after Mondo went out there, it wasn't the case, but thought I'd make more that 15 bucks for the time spent.

Anyways, it was a great structure early and if you can gather a lot of chips and avoid the landmines as blinds escalate, it's a great, but the deep stack play quickly ends as antes kick in and that a nice 5 hours of play. I wish Son well out there and hope he does better than we did in the tourneys but it was a fun weekend out of town and got Jenna's mind off work for a bit.
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