Pocket kings suck

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Pocket kings suck Empty Pocket kings suck

Post  dexman1349 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:20 pm

I hate pocket kings, here's one more reason:

PokerStars Game #14948006814: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/01/30 - 23:15:44 (ET)
Table 'Mathilda' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Azzrael ($8.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Dexman1349 ($8.39 in chips)
Seat 3: kunitico ($1.95 in chips)
Seat 4: bagnus ($6.78 in chips)
Seat 5: sargeyboo ($10.86 in chips)
Seat 6: Planet Hell ($4.18 in chips)
Seat 7: ViZzerdriX ($2.68 in chips)
Seat 8: SSSMAN ($4.29 in chips)
Seat 9: peveehook ($5.28 in chips)
sargeyboo: posts small blind $0.02
Planet Hell: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dexman1349 [Kh Kc]
Dexman1349 said, "I hate Jacks"
Dexman1349 said, "almost as much as A-K"
ViZzerdriX: folds
SSSMAN: calls $0.05
peveehook: folds
Azzrael: calls $0.05
Dexman1349: raises $0.30 to $0.35
kunitico: raises $0.40 to $0.75
bagnus: folds
sargeyboo: folds
Planet Hell: folds
SSSMAN: folds
Azzrael: folds
Dexman1349: calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [Td Ac Kd]
Dexman1349: checks
kunitico: bets $1.20 and is all-in
Dexman1349: calls $1.20
*** TURN *** [Td Ac Kd] [As]
*** RIVER *** [Td Ac Kd As] [3s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Dexman1349: shows [Kh Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Aces)
kunitico: shows [Ad Ah] (four of a kind, Aces)
kunitico collected $3.87 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.07 | Rake $0.20
Board [Td Ac Kd As 3s]
Seat 1: Azzrael folded before Flop
Seat 2: Dexman1349 showed [Kh Kc] and lost with a full house, Kings full of Aces
Seat 3: kunitico showed [Ad Ah] and won ($3.87) with four of a kind, Aces
Seat 4: bagnus (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: sargeyboo (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Planet Hell (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: ViZzerdriX folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: SSSMAN folded before Flop
Seat 9: peveehook folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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Post  idh78 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:43 am

getting a cooler is going to happen from time to time.....just be happy that hand came up playing .02/.05 NL and not $2/$5 NL
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Post  kkravec on Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:21 pm

And be happy he started with just $1.95
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Pocket kings suck Empty Re: Pocket kings suck

Post  Mondogarage on Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:43 pm

In the bar poker league I play, we have a main game, and then a consolation game. One night last week, I had KK go down to JJ (all in preflop) in the main game. Thirty minutes later, I had KK go down to JJ (all in on a raggy board) in the consolation game. On the river, in both instances.

Still, I'll take KK anytime.
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Post  idh78 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:52 pm

Mondogarage wrote:Still, I'll take KK anytime.

amen.....

I think the hands I have the most trouble with are 10's and Jacks.....the problem for me is that let's say I make a standard raise preflop with 2 10's...and get one caller who has position on me....the flop comes down Q 7 4 rainbow......I continuation bet about 2/3 of the pot....now if he calls I am probably going to shut it down on the turn before I become too invested in a pot that I might be drawing to 2 outs....if he raises I still lost some valueable chips just to find out where I was at.....which if you are up against a saavy opponent, you may still not even know... you could have been called by a hand like 78 and he makes this raise knowing unless you have a big hand like A-Q, KK, or AA that you can't continue the hand out of position....

playing those mid-pairs can get tricky post flop....that would have to be one part of my game that could use some work...
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Post  dexman1349 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:12 pm

idh78 wrote:
I think the hands I have the most trouble with are 10's and Jacks....

Here is a hand that ended up being quite tricky:

I'm on the button of a .02/.05 cash game (same as the one posted above) just a few hands later. 5 limpers to me, I raise to .30 with JsJc. Everyone folds to the person to my right who just calls.

Flop comes out 9-8-7 all hearts. Villan checks, I bet .50 (about 2/3 of the pot). Villan calls.

Turn is 2c. Again villan checks. (at this point I assume he has a high heart and is chasing). I bet $1. (just over 1/2 pot) Villan calls.

River is 7c. Once again villan checks. Pretty sure he missed completely on his draw, but I'm thinking he might be slow playing his already made flush and might try a check raise. So I just check.

He shows pocket 6's (he was on a straight flush draw), and luckily my Jacks hold up to win back most of the money I lost with the kings.
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Post  Mondogarage on Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:20 pm

dexman1349 wrote:
Here is a hand that ended up being quite tricky:

I'm on the button of a .02/.05 cash game (same as the one posted above) just a few hands later. 5 limpers to me, I raise to .30 with JsJc. Everyone folds to the person to my right who just calls.

Flop comes out 9-8-7 all hearts. Villan checks, I bet .50 (about 2/3 of the pot). Villan calls.

Turn is 2c. Again villan checks. (at this point I assume he has a high heart and is chasing). I bet $1. (just over 1/2 pot) Villan calls.

River is 7c. Once again villan checks. Pretty sure he missed completely on his draw, but I'm thinking he might be slow playing his already made flush and might try a check raise. So I just check.

He shows pocket 6's (he was on a straight flush draw), and luckily my Jacks hold up to win back most of the money I lost with the kings.

With five limpers in front, I will usually raise that hand more preflop, perhaps to .45, unless I have a strong read on the table as weak/tight. Why? Because if you only raise to .30, and you get one caller, everyone else has increasingly improving odds to see a flop where you really do not want to see any paint.

That said, I think you played the rest of the hand fine, because the only hand that calls a river bet in that spot is likely to be a hand that beats you. He was playing his OESD the whole time, and certainly would not put you on having a worse hand, but if he CRs there, you're probably either folding or making a crying call. Nicely played, imho.
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Pocket kings suck Empty Re: Pocket kings suck

Post  dexman1349 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:01 pm

I don't know why but I have a very hard time raising anything more than .30 preflop on a .02/.05 table. For some reason I have this mental limit on preflop raises to be no more than 5x BB. After reading Mondo's response, I can certainly see his point. I guess that's one more thing for me to work on.
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Pocket kings suck Empty Re: Pocket kings suck

Post  PoWdA on Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:00 pm

dexman1349 wrote:I hate pocket kings, here's one more reason:

PokerStars Game #14948006814: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/01/30 - 23:15:44 (ET)
Table 'Mathilda' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Azzrael ($8.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Dexman1349 ($8.39 in chips)
Seat 3: kunitico ($1.95 in chips)
Seat 4: bagnus ($6.78 in chips)
Seat 5: sargeyboo ($10.86 in chips)
Seat 6: Planet Hell ($4.18 in chips)
Seat 7: ViZzerdriX ($2.68 in chips)
Seat 8: SSSMAN ($4.29 in chips)
Seat 9: peveehook ($5.28 in chips)
sargeyboo: posts small blind $0.02
Planet Hell: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dexman1349 [Kh Kc]
Dexman1349 said, "I hate Jacks"
Dexman1349 said, "almost as much as A-K"
ViZzerdriX: folds
SSSMAN: calls $0.05
peveehook: folds
Azzrael: calls $0.05
Dexman1349: raises $0.30 to $0.35
kunitico: raises $0.40 to $0.75
bagnus: folds
sargeyboo: folds
Planet Hell: folds
SSSMAN: folds
Azzrael: folds
Dexman1349: calls $0.40 Shocked

JAM! ALL-IN!!!

I read to here and had to put in the correction, I then read the outcome. That sucks he had aces but you still should jam here, espescially with his stack, this is never a call.

Other than that that is a pretty harsh beat.
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Post  PoWdA on Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:07 pm

dexman1349 wrote:I don't know why but I have a very hard time raising anything more than .30 preflop on a .02/.05 table. For some reason I have this mental limit on preflop raises to be no more than 5x BB. After reading Mondo's response, I can certainly see his point. I guess that's one more thing for me to work on.
Also as far as this... One way I do this, almost a formula but not quite, is like this. No callers I open for 3x the bb. I then add a BB for every caller in afterward. So if I have 1 caller I go 4x the BB and 2 callers I might raise 5x or more... This is just an idea of how much I raise preflop, not like I play like this like clockwork but it is an idea and if there are a ton of limpers this little "system" can give you an idea of where your raise should be. You can't say "I am not going to raise to .30 because it is wierd." You are better off taking the pot pre-flop than losing because trash saw the flop cheap. Don't be afraid to raise with a good hand.
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Post  Mondogarage on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:14 pm

PoWdA wrote: Also as far as this... One way I do this, almost a formula but not quite, is like this. No callers I open for 3x the bb. I then add a BB for every caller in afterward. So if I have 1 caller I go 4x the BB and 2 callers I might raise 5x or more... This is just an idea of how much I raise preflop, not like I play like this like clockwork but it is an idea and if there are a ton of limpers this little "system" can give you an idea of where your raise should be. You can't say "I am not going to raise to .30 because it is wierd." You are better off taking the pot pre-flop than losing because trash saw the flop cheap. Don't be afraid to raise with a good hand.

Isn't that straight from Harrington? I often open like that, as well, unless I have a read that lets me overbet for value, or if I know raises at that formula won't get respect, and I'm holding cards that have little showdown value.
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Post  PoWdA on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:59 pm

Mondogarage wrote:
PoWdA wrote: Also as far as this... One way I do this, almost a formula but not quite, is like this. No callers I open for 3x the bb. I then add a BB for every caller in afterward. So if I have 1 caller I go 4x the BB and 2 callers I might raise 5x or more... This is just an idea of how much I raise preflop, not like I play like this like clockwork but it is an idea and if there are a ton of limpers this little "system" can give you an idea of where your raise should be. You can't say "I am not going to raise to .30 because it is wierd." You are better off taking the pot pre-flop than losing because trash saw the flop cheap. Don't be afraid to raise with a good hand.

Isn't that straight from Harrington? I often open like that, as well, unless I have a read that lets me overbet for value, or if I know raises at that formula won't get respect, and I'm holding cards that have little showdown value.
That might be... I read that book so long ago though but it makes sense. Obv this is not set in stone, little in this game is, but it is a good "system" for figuring a good raise. I am not near my Harrington to check but that might be where I go this from. I have been doing it for so long that I forgot where I learned it.
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Post  Mondogarage on Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:13 pm

Yeah, that's formula is almost always my "starting" thought. In other words, I apply that for a #, and then slide up or down based on # of players at the table, any specific reads, and the size of my stack compared to those who already called.

The only hard and fast rule though is, there are no hard and fast rules. Very Happy
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